Hello and welcome to the HumanWare
See Things Differently podcast.

Each month, join your hosts
Peter Tucic, Rachel Ramos and David Woodbridge as we bring you
engaging interviews from guests, interaction from our one of a kind
distribution partners stories that will take you off the beaten path.

Current promos, shows
where you can find us, and so much more.

So stick around.
Hi everyone, this is Rachel.

I have a quick prerecorded announcement
from Peter that I'd like to play at the beginning of the show.

Without further ado, here we go.

I am going to thank each
and every one of you who listens, and each and every one of you
who maybe I've interacted with over the last ten years
that I've been at HumanWare

I have made a very tough decision, to move forward and do some other things,
and I wouldn't call it forward.

Moving moving on.

I think it's, time for me
to take a bit of time off the road.

And spend some time with my family,
and I'm going to be taking an opportunity to do some more local work around, the state of Illinois and here in Chicago.

But I have appreciated getting to know every one of you, whether you've attended
HumanWare live webinars or other user webinars
I've done over the years.

If we've corresponded over email.

If you've enjoyed this podcast,
it's about to get a lot better because I won't be here.

So David and Rachel are going to
just make it shine.

More so than Peter's.

I say all too much.

So that needs to be needs to be remedied.

I never took a good course on true,
effective podcasting, but, I've really appreciated all of you.

And if you do hear me
or see me somewhere along the way, because I will still be floating around here and there,
conferences or other things, come find me.

Say hello and tell me you want
to get a coffee or some kind of beverage.

I'm always open to anything.

But I've,

I've really appreciated
being a part of this for such a long time.

And the podcast has been a short part
of this for the last five months, but certainly know that, I'm
so proud of HumanWare I'm so proud of what we've done, what HumanWare we'll
continue to do is going to be exciting.

There's lots of neat things coming.

Whether it be with the Monarch
and other products, there's so many great things on the horizon.

And I've been so unbelievably fortunate
to be a part of it.

And it's meant a lot to me to get to know so many amazing people
throughout our field.

And whether it's education
or for the professionals or the retirees or the hobbyists or the braille
transcribers or the, the students, the users that I've been able
to talk with over the years,

I've appreciated it tremendously.

So thank you to all of you.

Thank you for continuing to listen
and thank you for supporting HumanWare and all of the things we do
and have done for the last 35 years.

Thank you, everybody, and we'll be back
with See Things Differently next month on July 17th.

Thank you all.

Good morning.

Good day.

Good afternoon, good evening, good 4:00 hour for me and you, Rachel, it's 4:00.

But for David, as always.

What time is it, David?

Oh, look, it's 1 a.m. in the morning.
No it's not.

It's actually 7:30 a.m..

It's very nice. See, one of these times,
I'm telling you, we're going to.

We will.

We will flip the script.

It will be, you know, 3 a.m. for me.

So you can get a nice like.
No, I guess that would be 6 p.m..

We need to do on a normal time for you.

How about 2 p.m. for you?

So like 11 p.m. for us, Rachel, and I'll be up really late
and it'll be fair.

Would that be fair? That would be awesome.
It would be awesome.

Yes. Yeah. We need to work on that.
We're going to do it.

And and you'll sound
so just you have a pep in your step.

You know.

Indeed from the feedback we get at
[email protected]

Everyone says you sound so tired they feel
like you're always here in the morning.

No one said that.

Listen, I work 24 hours,
seven days a week, right?

No one, no one has said that.

But if you do have those kind of thoughts,
you can always email us [email protected]

How's it going Rachel how's it going?

Peter. Greetings. Salutations.

What's up?

I'm glad you have a computer.

That doesn't make you sound like
you're under the water. Me too.

That was exciting.

Oh, I'll need to investigate
after we recorded and make it sound good.

Yeah, we need to put an outtake of you
saying hello, everyone.

Right in the middle of this and just.

Hello, everyone.

But on that other computer
so they can hear what you could have sounded
like on this podcast.

Oh dear. Welcome to June.

And this month we're going to be talking
about an event that occurs every June annually
for the last many years.

And we'll hear
exactly how many years coming up.

But we are going to be talking
about the Braille challenge and really, the

Braille challenge is something I was first
exposed to about, this ten years ago.

Would it be ten years ago this year?

And it's an event.

It is a competition.

It is one of a kind, truly one of a kind.

We're going to dive into
to exactly what it is.

But it takes place every summer.

The finals at least take place
every summer.

The actual events will take place
throughout the spring.

And we are going to hear
from a friend of mine, a new mom, an awesome person in general,
Madeleine Hernandez, who is the National and Youth Programs Manager
at Braille Institute in sunny SoCal.

Is it sunny Madeleine? It
is. It's beautiful.

Welcome to See Things Differently,
the podcast.

Delighted to be here.
Thanks for having me.

You're welcome.

We're fired up.

And, you know, I,
I know that many, many people,

I think, especially in this country
are aware, you know, of braille challenge who especially who are younger or who
maybe have recently graduated school, or have gone through

K-12 education
in the last 20, 25 years.

But can you give us a brief overview of what Braille challenge is?

And then I want to we're going to I'm
going to have some questions for you too.

But I want to talk Braille challenge.
Now we're going to talk about how you kind of support Braille challenge
which is which is pretty cool.

Absolutely.

So Braille Challenge
is the only academic competition of its kind for students in grades
1 through 12 who are blind or visually impaired
and who read and write Braille.

And what it does is it provides a platform for students to hone their Braille skills,
which, as you all know, are essential to academic and employment
success.

And beyond that,
it provides a space for our students to make friends and develop lifelong friendships.

And is it something that,

I mean, I'm assuming it
it started very it was hyperlocal.

We know it's such a national event and even international event,
but when did it start?

This year
we are celebrating our 25th anniversary, so Braille Challenge has been around
for a quarter of a century.

It started in the year
2000, in Southern California, and since then we've expanded to 36 U.S. states, and four countries outside of the US.

So we're so proud of the growth
that we've seen in 25 years.

Over that 25 years, we've reached nearly 22,000 students, in participation.

That's awesome. Including Rachel.

You reached Rachel?

Yes, we did many moons ago.

You did 20 years ago.

They reached you.

They did 20 years. So you you were there.

You were at like the first.

You were at the first,
like before the quarter turn.

That's right. 2004 and 2006.

Madeleine, how did this expand?

I was living on the East Coast
at the time, and I competed in my school and then was able to go out to the finals,
which was so much fun.

I'd never been out
to California at the time.

So how did that expand?

Because as Peter mentioned, you reached me
and I had so much fun at the competition.

Yeah.

So we started in Southern California,
in Orange County through our Braille Institute office, and we have partnerships across the U.S. and contacts.

And our first regional
that we held was in New England, and they've been participating for 25 years as well.

So it started with having students
in Southern California and then in New England.

And then two years later
we added Oklahoma, and since then we've just been adding new partners,
new regionals across the country.

I think after that it was Iowa
and Nebraska, Florida.

And typically these have been
through contacts at schools for the blind or other agencies that serve the blind
and visually impaired.

And with these partnerships,
they identify how important it is to bring this type of program
to their students.

And that's why we've seen so much growth
over these 25 years.

And just slowly but surely, we've just
been expanding and we're- it's been great.

And I know, you know,
people think Braille challenge.

And when we think of Braille, we think of,
oh it's something we read.

I mean, the Braille challenge
is not just reading Braille.

I mean, I know it certainly is.

There's reading components, but what what makes up a typical Braille
challenge event?

There's so many pieces to this.

So it's primarily for students in grades
1 through 12.

They're split up into five categories
based on their age.

And then based on their age they take
either 3 or 4 different contests.

And those are proofreading,
reading comprehension, speed and accuracy,
spelling and charts and graphs.

That is Braille
challenge at its most basic level.

A student participates in those contests and either reads and answers the questions
or for speed and accuracy, they listen to an audio passage
and transcribe what they're hearing.

But Braille challenge in itself
can be so much more than that, because we always invite partners in the field to provide parent workshops,
or we provide entertainment or connect students
with resources in their communities.

So as much of it
as it is about Braille literacy and celebrating
that, it's also about getting students, connected with their resources
and their communities, meeting other families and students,
making friends.

So many more aspects to it.

Yeah, I totally agree.

And as someone who's been to many Braille
Challenge finals and some regionals as well,
just that level of connection, getting families together
from different corners of the world.

Well, I mean, and of the country,
of the state of the region you're in is is very cool.

And I think what's even
neater is not only do the contestants come in, but their families are there,
their siblings are there.

And I think so often the the blind kiddo, that blind participant
is going to their siblings baseball game or hockey game or so I'm just kind of sitting there right
when I'm being a part of the action where this pulls in families
where, you know, the that whole competition is centered around that,
that blind child, that Braille reader.

And so it's, it puts the other family members
in that spectator seat that maybe sometimes, you know, the blanket is in
and never gets to get out of.

So I think that's very,
very cool. Absolutely.

And that's one of the important
aspects of this program, is providing students with a platform
for experiencing an academic competition and something that is for them
and that they're experts in.

And I think that's
really exciting to be able to have that arena for these students.

And so to get kind of
into the into the other side.

And now it has grown and I,
I know that last year at Braille Challenge

I met some of the UK contingent
that was there.

I know in years past we've had,
we've had quite a few Canadians and now, David, you are in the fold
as of last year.

Right. Because Australia is on board.

So how did that kind of come about.

And I want to hear from you, David.

You know, just as to kind of what you've seen
at the World Challenge.

But Madeleine how is that?

Ben I know it's got to be a long way.

I mean, having a competition that is so U.S
centric or North American centric and then trying to bring in these others
and say, you're part of this.

And by the way, we're going to we're going
to bring you to LA from London.

I'm sure that's a bit tricky.

And how is that gone?

And has it been different to do
a, you know, this North American kind of braille challenge
in a different country, the format.

So it was very exciting to be able
to add on Australia as one of our regional partners and to move into a new continent and to recognize the importance of Braille challenge
and the excitement that surrounds it.

We see in our partners.

They recognize the significance
of this program for their students.

So bringing the program
to Australia has been very smooth.

We designed our program
to be a program in the box, so we provide all of the contents
and all of the information that a new regional partner
would need to host a real challenge.

So they have all the instructions
that their proctors would need.

They have the contest
that their students get to use.

We have templates for everything
and how to recruit volunteers to help the day run smoothly.

So we do everything on our end to support any agencies or schools,
or even groups of teachers who wish to proctor
Braille challenge to their students.

We work to make it as smooth as possible,
because we know that this is something that's offered
outside the classroom, and teachers are really busy with everything else
that they have going on and serving their students, and we want to
make this as smooth as possible.

So getting this to Australia, it did take a little bit longer
for those boxes to arrive, but really we did our best to get them everything
they need it to host a successful program.

I love it, the plug and play.

And David you attended
the Braille challenge didn't you?

I did I I've never seen so many Perkins
Braille as in one spot before.

I think there was 38 of them and it brought back memories from school.

I've never I've just
I've lost the sound of the historic sound of Perkins Braille is happening.

So that was good to remind me when I was
eight years old, a long time ago.

But now, look,
it was good.

See Differently

In Australia
they brought the Braille challenge in.

And I attended last year
very enthusiastic.

The students were, you know, you could see everyone in different rooms
doing their different test, and they came out and had a play
with all the the tech stuff outside.

And it was just a really great environment
because sometimes, you know, you get that,
you get the nice size that, you know,

I was dying
and it was just great to see volunteers, parents, families, professionals,
everybody else getting very enthusiastic.

So I was I was absolutely amazed.

So it was good
and I believe this year, See Differently is trying to get it
to be more of a national event.

And of course, you know, may even
we will be participating once again.

So I was actually really glad
to be part of it.

And the beauty of that is, you know,
this is where again,

I not not to start the Braille debate,
we're not going to play Braille debate here, but the beauty of unified
English Braille is at play right?

Because previously, a Braille event, a Braille centric event
could take place in the US.

And that that plug and play mentality
that Madeleine, you just talked about, if you wanted to shift it over
to Australia or to the UK or to New Zealand or to South Africa
or to any English speaking place, the Braille code itself would be different
and that is no longer the case.

And so I think again,
you know, we get into and we all have a preference
and maybe some of us, you know, out there
certainly do still prefer the old Braille.

But if you look at an opportunity
like this where a kiddo sitting in Australia
can compete with a kiddo sitting, you know, in school in the UK
can compete with somebody in Florida and they can all be doing in
and kind of working through the same content
to eventually, you know, be it
be in the finals if they're selected, if they win their regional,
that is what is so neat.

And that is where the plug and play method
that you reference Madeleine is, is clearly I mean, it's working
and that is in large part thanks to UEB.

So I think that's really neat. Absolutely.

And with that, in the last year we've even
been able to add on another country.

And we're now doing
Braille challenge in Ireland as well.

So it really speaks to the power of our ability to just work
with so many different countries.

And however,
expanding the reach of Braille challenges, which is just so fantastic.

Actually, Madeleine, I've got a
I've got a question.

Is it a students
just meant to use only a Perkins or can students
use other electronic devices?

So I mean, I know
I mean, I've had my Perkins since jeez 1974 and it's still going,
but I'm just wondering, are you looking at expanding
to more electronic devices in the future, or is it pretty much still the Perkins stuff
that children start off with at school?

We've done research on potentially adding on the digital format to the contest,
but for now we are sticking with the Perkins Brailler because it keeps
the competition even across the board.

For every student that participates,
there's no advantage to being on a device that they may perform
faster on or whatever it may be.

So to just keep it
even with all of the students who participate each and every year,
we use the Perkins Brailler.

Okay, that makes sense.

Yeah, good.
How does the listening piece work?

Like if you have seven kids or,
you know, hearing one passage and trying to Braille away,
how does that happen?

Every student has access
to some kind of audio device for the speed and accuracy contest,
so. Gotcha.

They wear headphones.

They use a device often for finals, for example,
we provide Victor Reader Streams.

Oh, we know what those are.

You may be familiar.

And so they have the ability
to rewind, fast forward pause.

So it's every student has their own.

And so it's really not disruptive
in the classroom.

I need to know, Rachel, when you did this, you obviously did really
well because you got you went to LA.

So you were like
you were like the top of the crew there.

But the real question is,
what was your favorite?

What was actually what were you the worst at?

That that's what I want to know.

Where did you really struggle?

You know where I struggle.

I was just going to comment on,
before we get to that.

And it was tactile graphics, by the way.

But before we get to that,
I love that you guys use Victor Streams because what I went through,
they used tape players, man.

And I think you had
it was either a foot pedal or something, so you could pause
and rewind to get everything.

I am pretty sure that's
that's how that went.

So the fact you guys use
Victor Streams just is so, so cool because it's so much easier
to kind of rewind, fast forward to make sure that you get everything,
but you struggle with charts and graphs.

Let's talk about the real question.

And so the charts and graphs,
charts and graphs.

That was tough.

So much more advances have been made to make those graphics,
you know, easier to read and whatnot.

And we've just come such a long way.

I'm glad you say it, though,
because we talk a lot about not just Braille literacy,
but especially now with the Monarch and a lot of what we're doing
and what we're trying to do as a whole for the for the all blind kiddos out there,
for all blind people out there, is develop and create a better way for us to develop
tactile, graphic or graphical literacy.

Because we just don't see enough graphics.

So sometimes the reason isn't
that you were bad at consuming that tactile graphic, it's just that
we don't feel enough charts and graphs.

We really don't. And if you, you know, the more we're exposed
to that kind of material at younger ages,

I think the better we all can be
at performing on charts and graphs.

But I, I don't know, I think it's
ultimately what we want to see.

And I'd be very curious
if we were to come back in 25 years, so I'm not sure.

Madeline, what you're doing on
May something 2050, but we can schedule it now.

I can look how far forward
my Outlook calendar goes.

I'll accept the calendar invite.

If we were to start in 20 years.

And kind of look though at have the charts and graphs scores
going up in any way, shape or form.

With the advent of the,
you know, kind of dynamic tactile devices that are out there,
be it Monarch and, and be it be at others that have come and will continue to
come on onto the scene.

I'd love to know.

If that's impacted the
the tactile literacy, if you will, of graphics and I think
I think it will I really think it will.

But it'd be interesting to see because
that's one of our goals. I wanted to ask.

So in terms of the competition,
is there any,

I mean, categories
that may be added or anything else?

Are there any changes?

How often does the content get refreshed?

Because obviously, you know, blind
kids are really good at memorizing things.

I guarantee you there are some blind kids
to memorize that entire challenge, and they think they're going to get the same one next year,
and they're going to crush it.

And then they show up
and it's different content.

But how often does it get refreshed?

So the content itself is refreshed every year we work with a group of contest
developers.

Hear that kids? Every single year.

So memorize all you want.

It's good practice,
but it won't help you the year after.

So we work with a group of contest
developers who are teachers, professors, and professionals in the field who work with students
who help develop the content, ensure that they're age appropriate
and challenging for our students.

So every year, the content itself
gets refreshed.

We've had the same age categories
and proofreading, reading comprehension, speed and accuracy, charts and graphs, spelling those are all
staples of the Braille Challenge program.

But most recently, we've added
a new category called foundational.

And this category is for all students learning Braille.

So Braille challenge in the past
has really been about Braille excellence and the introduction
of the foundational category brings more students to the table.

Because

Braille learners
are on all areas of the spectrum.

Maybe a student recently lost their vision
and they're in 10th grade and the Braille Challenge
competition is not for them because they don't have the speed
to keep up with their peers, for example.

But we want to motivate that student.

We want them to be excited about braille
literacy and learning and practicing.

So foundational
might be the right place for them.

Or maybe a student who is just
in the preliminary, very early stages and may not have the capacity to learn up
until the 12th grade level of Braille.

Maybe the foundational category
is best for them.

So this is something that we introduced
inspired by regionals, who are already doing this
with some of their students.

We worked with Doctor Adam Wilton,
who's been on the Braille

Challenge Advisory Committee
because he and his team, and Braille Challenge in British
Columbia, Canada, they were doing this
and designing contests for their students who were most appropriate
for foundational.

So we're proud that we are offering this, across the board
to all of our Braille Challenge regionals.

And this past year, 20% of our Braille

Challenge participants
were in the foundational category.

So there's absolutely a need there.

And, we hope to see this category grow
and serve more students.

That's really cool too, because I think
that it's very challenging for,

I mean, certainly for adults who are
newer of vision loss to learn Braille, but definitely those dual learners
or those students who maybe don't didn't start learning
like I did or Rachel did or David did.

When we're in first grade, kindergarten,
you know, where they really struggle because they're
then they're just reading, like, it just feels like they're
they're babied into it.

Right? They're starting with these books
that are meant for three year olds.

And so but they're 16 or 17,
you know, and it's just a major struggle.

And they certainly isn't something
they really want to be doing anyway.

So I, I love it I absolutely love it.

I guess the last question
that I have is about getting-

So if someone is interested because we, we will have people listening
from all over the place.

And if somebody is interested in,
you know, I know it takes it takes a lot.

You know, a gaggle I'm going to say of volunteers,
certainly to put these things together.

What can somebody do?

How does somebody say, well,
I have like 10 to 12 Braille, you know, readers or learners in my area.

And I'd love to start to explore
how this can be done, because we see it can kind of grow from,
from the ground up.

How would they go about doing that?

There's a couple options here.

So if a teacher has a few students with whom they work and they'd be
interested in offering Braille challenge to them on a small scale,
we offer TVI proctored Braille challenge, so a TVI can order contest and proctor
Braille Challenge either one on one or in a small group,
and host their own mini Braille challenge.

That way, if they're interested in starting a regional
and oftentimes that is how a regional start very small scale
and then they get their colleagues and peers and families
and school administration on board, and it turns into a regional
that's hosted by a school or an agency.

They can reach out to us and get all the information
that they need to get that started.

Sometimes a new braille, regional braille challenge,
regional just hosts the contest.

And that's really what our primary goal is, is to offer
Braille challenge to the students.

And then maybe the next year
they add parent workshops or they add, guest speakers or different aspects of the program
or an award ceremony.

There's different ways
to add to the program each and every year.

But the
best way is just to reach out to us and we can talk about all the different
ways that you can host Braille Challenge in your area. And Braille Institute.

I mean, it's it's an organization
that's been around for over 100.

And what is it, 110 years? 106 we were founded in 1919. 106 I was close.

And there's so many different
things that Braille Institute

Institute offers.

So, it's a phenomenal organization, in the Los Angeles area and does so much
and I mean, clearly it's been it's been the impetus of, of Braille challenge
spreading all over the world.

Hey, you know what, Peter?
I just had a thought.

Maybe, maybe all of us should try
and do the project and test our knowledge.

Yet after all these years
and see how we go.

Peter and I have talked about this.

I like that, David. Let's go.

Let's have a real challenge for adults.
It'd be awesome.

Have you ever thought
about coming to an event, and doing an adult
Braille challenge for funsies?

Madeleine. Is that ever
is that ever come up?

I mean, is it something that,
I mean, obviously it'd be for just, you know, or maybe do it for a charity
or something like that.

Has that ever been thought about?

This is not the first time I've heard
about an adult Braille challenge.

People have reached out to us multiple times
about their interest in that.

It's not off the table.

I think this is something that
so many people would enjoy hearing about.

I know our students,
our youth students would get such a kick out of knowing that adults are doing
Braille challenge like that in itself.

Oh my goodness no. Imagine we put it
on. We put it on Twitch.

You know, it's like a Twitch thing
and it's like a livestream.

So it's a little different.

Like we're being proctored in real time.

I think is how you make it really funny.

And it's in it's
yeah, we're going to take this offline.

I'm going to
we're going to make this happen.

It's going to be a lot of people
we know from the field teachers.

It could be, you know, many,
many blind people.

I think we need to do some
we need to do some throw downs.

It sounds like fun to me.

Stay tuned world
David, you've started a revolution.

We're going to call it the David the David
Woodbridge Adult Braille Challenge.

Yeah, that's how we're doing it.

Madeleine,
thank you so much for joining and talking about Braille Challenge.
And I'm looking forward to another awesome,
you know, finals competition in LA.

And I, I just really, really I'm happy
you could come out and talk about this and spread the word.

And I know you don't need the word spread.

It's spreading very fast and far.

But really appreciate your time
and just coming on and talking about this.

Yeah.

Peter, thanks so much for having me
and for participating in Braille Challenge and all the many ways
that you've supported it.

And we're proud of
how far we've come in 25 years.

And we look forward to many,
many more years.

So thank you.

We will be there June 20th. What is it?

Let me see.
Hold on. 27th and 28th. Correct?

Yeah. 26-27-28.

We've added an extra day
in celebration of our 25th.

Awesome.

And we will be in LA and

HumanWare has provided
Brailliant Displays for our winners.

And that's certainly something
we have have been part of for a long time and will continue
to support Braille Challenge.

And it's in its regions
and it's different parts of the world.

And certainly at our national finals.

Welcome back to the cringeworthy part of the show.

And this month, actually,
David is live with us.

He's always live with us.

I don't think you ever got here, David,
but you are in your home, correct?

I am, and you've come back from a conference and you have a fresh,
fresh, cringeworthy story that I think, we, we could go with,
you actually have two of them.

So you can actually take your pick
on which one we go with.

And I certainly have one as well.

But David, what happened?

What was going on, what was cringeworthy?

I haven't had this happen to me
for a very long, long, long time.

So I got to the airport, as you do
when you're flying back from somewhere.

And I said, you know, I need meet and greet assistance from,
you know, to check into the gate.

So what turns up is a wheelchair.

And I said, no, I'm blind.

I don't have a physical disability.

Oh no no no no no
no, we need to put you in this wheelchair.

But I don't need a wheelchair.

Oh, no.

But that's
the only way that we can take you.

So I thought my wife's
in a wheelchair, so I'll just channel.

I'll just get on my wife
when she needs to walk long distances.

So I got in there, went through security,

I got out of the wheelchair,
and then I say, can I walk to the gate?

And they went,
oh no, no, I've got a special buggy.

You got the beepy cart.

The beepy cart.

But did, because it's such a long way, you
you won't be able to walk that far.

It's a buggy.

And then when I got to the gate,
they said, well, we'll try an organizer.

You can go up the lift. And I thought, no.

All right. Sorry. Sorry, guys. That's it.

So I just said no.

Look, honestly, guys,
I put up with the wheelchair.

I put up with the buggy.

I am not going up the lift on.

Quite capable of walking up 15 or whatever
it is, 20 stairs.

And then when I got to the stairs,
there was somebody walking behind me and in front of me
just to make sure that I didn't fall down.

I think honestly,
one of the hardest parts of it is sometimes it is so much easier
just to say, okay, you know, I will get in the chair,
I will get in the cart.

Very rarely will I get in the chair,
but I certainly have gotten in the cart.

And mainly I get in the cart
when there's like three other people and I realize I am not going to win
and I just want to get where I need to go.

As someone who uses an assistant,
you know, so generally I do the same thing when I get to an airport, which I, I mean,
many, I will ask for a gate assist.

Now, some, you know, out there may use
AIRA, may use other, other methods by getting through.

My point has always been I'm here,
I'm working.

I have got to get from point A to point B, and let's face it,
I want to go to the lounge.

You know, I want to get in and it's going to be a lot quicker
and more efficient with an assist.

And so usually we can
yeah, can talk our way out of it.

But gosh
you got like the quadruple whammy.

Yeah I, I had one this month.

So my routine with my daughter
who is four is on Saturday mornings she and I will go to somewhere
and she likes to go get donuts.

So I end up taking her here.

We have a very, very popular America
Runs on Dunkin, which was Dunkin Donuts.

And now you can't say Dunkin Donuts.

It's just Dunkin at this point.

But I take my daughter to Dunkin
and the Dunkin.

We go to is in a very large commuter
train station.

So I live in the middle of Chicago, and I don't we don't go to one kind of
on a street corner and a shopping plaza.

We go to one that's more in a food court
in a big train station.

Now, I have lived where I am for many,
many years.

I mean, I know my way around
and but it's the city and there's always there's just always going to be random
construction and things.

So we're on the bus
and we were about to get the donuts.

We have this rhythm,
and our rhythm was busted because we get off the bus and right away
there's a fence, you know, at curb,
basically get off the bus, you step down and it's before you hit the sidewalk,
there is a fence.

And I think, oh, no, this is not going to be,
the easiest sort of traversing, but I but I mean, I've done this many times
now, immediately the bus driver starts giving me and some other random person
start giving me instructions, like, like I'm part of a video game,
you know, they're like yelling left.

I swear, I think one person yelled up.

I don't know what that means.

I didn't
know if this would go up the fence.

I didn't know, I mean,
or they thought they got up, went straight
like they were using a joystick.

I don't know, but regardless to say

I, I had asked,
I said, you know, is there a along this?

Generally when they put up a fence
there's some scaffolding.

Is there something I can walk along the,
you know, along to avoid the cars?

Do I have to walk.
I can't get on the sidewalk.

No. It's closed, it's closed.

You have to go to the next block
and cross over. So I said that's fine.

And my daughter
is more than used to my shenanigans.

So she's just like, okay, let's go down.

So, you know, as soon as we get to the to the sidewalk,
I'm walking in the right direction.

I know what we need to do, but
the bus just starts kind of creeping along at a very slow,
a very slow jaunt next to me.

And I think this is the bus
I just got off of, and I think, oh, no, this guy's
watching. And now there is also, you know, when you're being watched,
it's like it's going to happen.

See this?

I'm about to get more yelling.
It's going to happen.

And sure enough,

I approached the corner where there
happened to be more construction cones.

And the next thing I know,
the bus driver is out of the bus telling me that he will help me
cross the street.

I think the people who work at
airports are being helpful.

The people who want to assist you,
they are genuinely being helpful.

It's just sometimes
they don't want to hear when you tell them you don't need it,
or when you tell them you've got it and they watch you in the second
you need to do some discovery, they're like see, see, see
you don't know, you don't know.

And then they try to jump in
and that's where it gets tricky.

Rachel what do you have generally
you had this bus like creeping along and trying to follow you.

I had somebody who was,
take me back from an appointment and I said, okay, you know, my house
is this color and there's these landmarks in front of it.

And they pulled over and I could tell
that it wasn't the right house.

They didn't drive
far enough down the street, and they were just like,
I'm pretty sure it's in.

Yeah. Okay.

So I got out and got my GPS
and I was like, okay, we're we're a block up and, you know,
oh, no, I'm so sorry.

Do you need me to drive you?
You know, the block for it.

I was like, no, not at all.
I know where I am, I've got this.

I'm walking along. It's a beautiful day.
I could just tell.

This car was slowly, slowly and long, slinking along is not is not leaving.

Once I got to my house and I, was like,
okay, verify that this was it.

And he saw that.

Then he sped up and went away.
I was like, wow.

He was, again, that that structured
discovery that you were talking about was coming into play,
and he wasn't quite sure about it.

If you have a good story, feel free to
send us a note [email protected]

And I'm going to
I think there needs to be a new slogan.

It'll be keep on cringing.

Welcome back to the Hot Take and this one.

This month we have a topic
that is near and dear to HumanWare's heart
This is a HumanWare podcast.

After all, we're in it to entertain
and to be informative.

But this topic is absolutely something
that, you know, has been a part of
HumanWare for, for decades.

And that is the note taker.

And what I think, you know, what I want to talk about
is where we all see the relevance for or the usefulness of a note taker,
and specifically a Braille note taker.

Do we see the relevance and how do we kind of see that shifting?

Certainly.

There was a time
when the note taker was invented or became a thing in the late 80s
and really took off in the early 90s, where it simplified word processing
for a Braille user.

And at first it really was a
just a Braille input.

There was no braille output, really,
a braille input device that allowed you to have word processing and organize
some calendars and things.

But it really served a, you know, a purpose to simplify
mainstream operating systems that were not nearly as accessible
as they as they could be over the years.

You know, we've seen it change,
and we definitely have seen the note taker evolve
and turn into something that is, you know,
more of a mainstream operating system.

So if you look at what we are doing,
you look at the HIMS or the HumanWare devices of today being,
you know, mobile OS based.

So Android based, we know that many, you know,
sort of other devices have come and gone or even are still around
that are more of a hybrid approach where they take an existing
Braille display within, you know, what a screen reader or,
and kind of have that host device, but have some internal basic
notetaking functions.

And David, I mean, you I'm assuming
you've used and have have had access to note taker since since the beginning.

Where have you seen them change
and where do you think they'll go?

I could definitely see them
being relevant, like, you know, 45,
maybe 40 years ago now.

So because then there wasn't
anything else available because we couldn't have really have good solid access
to a computer.

We needed some way of taking notes quickly
and reading it back to live with, like, speech
and then letter on Braille.

And I think where things that have morphed
to over the years is that, you know, we've now got a range of,
you know, what we tend to call smart braille displays versus braille takers
and where do you keep your data?

And unfortunately,
I think the word note taker has sort of turned into,
rather than being a quite a flexible thing to actually be able to quote, take notes
on, it's turned into a, oh, geez,
this thing's a bit limited. You know, I when I compare this to my iPhone
and my iPad and my Android tablet,

I really don't know why I'm doing this.

So I think it's gone from a positive thing
to a slightly negative thing.

And where I'd love to see it going
is it's your laptop, it's your desktop,
it's your mobile device.

It's, you know, it's running
the operating system that certainly everybody in the world
uses, which is Windows, which I wish I wish it was a Mac,
but I'm big enough and old enough to admit the fact that nobody really uses
Mac anymore.

That's not true.
We have lots of passionate Mac users.

They're going to come find you. Oh,
thank goodness for that.

Oh thank you.

But I would just I mean where it's going
I would love to see a laptop.

That's not call that tech anymore a laptop
that's got a Windows and a Braille display in it.

I think today's note
takers are the Android based ones.

One of the the hardest pieces
is that what you're doing on those products is limited
to a mobile environment.

Since I've started at HumanWare
I started before the the advent of the Braille,
the original Braille Note touch, it's been a it's been a wonderful thing
to go to Android, an absolutely wonderful thing
because we've been able to install mainstream applications.

We've been able to do all of this
and keep in mind in a Braille first way.

So the note taker does
give you that Braille first OS.

Sometimes we're in front of folks
and they say, you know, my kiddos, my users are going into senior year
of high school and don't have good computer skills
because all they want to use is their note taker,
and that limits them.

And I say, well, why would you let them
only use their note taker?

Don't do that.

You know they need to be using screen
readers.

They need to be using mobile devices.

They need to be using braille.

They need to be using
a wide array of tools.

I'm not I mean, if you can,
I'm sure you've had that sort of come up.

Rachel, I would guess a lot
that, you know, there are concentrations of blind folks
maybe at blind schools or camps or something like that,
and you hear them talking in there.

They're very involved with the note taker.

And I think that's fantastic.

But I also caution teachers,
young students, don't pigeonhole yourselves into
I just use a note taker.

I can run circles around you
on my note taker.

But if you put a computer in front of me,
I have no idea what to do.

And that's just a disservice.

We never want to do a disservice
to those that we serve.

And I think note takers are, or whatever
we want to call them, devices that allow us to take notes
in a simple way and access what we need to
that has a wonderful place for students.

But there's also a place
for braille displays, and we need to make sure that we're
doing our best to transition our students to keep up in the, in the workforce
and later schooling.

Like some of the note taker
infrastructure, the simplification of certain menus,
some of that is very, very helpful.

But I think when you're putting technology under the hands of a three year
old, four year old, five year old, which is absolutely where you should be
exposing blind kiddos to technology, you definitely want to start with
some sort of controlled environment.

I'm back to you guys about saying
you know, you will you use whatever tool you got available.

And the more tools you have,
the more flexible you are.

So even if you just say, well,
thou shalt not ever use, a note taker, or I'll just use my Windows laptop or my Mac
or my Android device or whatever else, and it doesn't matter what you're using
if you're only using one device to get you through the world for school, university,
or work, you're still limiting yourself.

I picked the most appropriate tool
at the time.

You will always find
that a certain task works best for your workflow
with a certain device.

I do still see the relevance
of the note taker, and I definitely.

I totally agree.

And I think it's just a constant struggle
and something that I'm glad we can touch on, especially HumanWare
being synonymous with the Braille note, knowing that the current note taker,
the braille note touch plus is something that as functional as it is, and as great
as it is for math and for that Braille centric braille user to be productive,
some of the mainstream productivity is becoming very difficult
as that device ages.

So we need to be thinking about what can we do, you know, how can we
how can we pivot?

And I think these are a lot of discussions that we've been having internally
and certainly,

I've been no stranger to say
on different shows and podcasts and things

I've been on. So I'm glad we could,
glad we could touch on it.

Welcome back to the Partner Corner
segment everybody. In this month's
we kind of float around the world.

I know we've been to Canada,
we've been to Australia, we have been to Europe,
we've been in the Netherlands.

We've been all over.

We going to welcome Alan Davis,
who is HumanWare's general manager of sales
for UK and Ireland.

How are you doing Alan?

I'm very well, Peter,
thank you for asking.

I'm glad you're here
because I think, you know, I've.

I've been here ten years.
You've been here?

How long have you been
at HumanWare Alan.

Oh my goodness, it's a long time.

So I joined when it was Pulse Data
before the

HumanWare company.

It's now 24 years. It's my 24th year.

That's awesome. You and you and Andrew.

I think you're both at 24 years.

Yes, I remember when he started.

I feel like such a baby.

Yeah, I feel so old. It's.

We always joke on the podcast
that David Woodbridge shows his age, but,

I mean, for, for the long time
human, we're employees and I think it it underscores
is that a lot of people here, are here for a long time,
and I can think of several I mean, our, you know, both on the UK team,
and our team here in the U.S. and the,
you know, at the corporate kind of level.

A lot of people come here and it becomes, you know, become
something they do for a very long time.

It's more than simply a job, or a career.

It really is a passion.

How did you get into this space?

Did you have any experience
with blind people before or people
who are visually impaired before this? No.

So this was totally new to me.

And, I was working,
traveling a lot round to live in the Middle East, Scandinavia
as well, in other parts of Europe, but a lot of traveling, starting a family, looking for a new challenge.

I wasn't desperate to move,
but I wanted one that would be more in contact
with people.

I was sitting in meetings in in Egypt
for hours at a time, arguing over, you know, fractions of a percent,
discounts.

We had sometimes joined the B2B business and just wanted to get- yeah quite- and, as always,
the phone negotiations were always just as you going back to the airport
and you had a plane to catch.

And so we are could I ask you?

But, so I wanted to make a change and, this decision came verbal,
which is fantastic.

And and, you know, why am I still here?

Well, we combines, you know, we do do some business to business,
but we also do business to consumer.

And we're dealing with people
sometimes at five years old, up to 95 and above, you know,
not many companies and businesses where, you know, you're involved
with that range of customers.

And they're all very, very different.

And, you know,
it appealed to me from day one.

That is a job that would help.

Would I be very satisfied
with helping people?

So and that's what it's proven to be
24 years later, you know, still here.

Hopefully what we do each day helps people.

We're here to make things
easier and better, not harder.

And worse.

And I say it's a fantastic variety of people that we come into contact with, which is really great in the UK
because we have this direct sales force.

So it's rather a different setup to
other parts of the HumanWare divisions and that we are going into people's homes,
we go and see Mrs.

Jones and we go into schools to see
primary and secondary and universities.

We go into the workplace
to, to meet people in the work, with all different types of products.

And, you know, it's very satisfying
what we do and seeing these successes and over 24 years of seeing people through their schools and I've seen them
when they go to works, I know you and, you know, it's really very satisfying
that our technology makes a difference in their lives
one way or another.

That's very, very satisfying.

And, you know, I say, well, looked after,

I think what's interesting,
and you bring it up about the direct, more direct sales channel,
and kind of approach that the UK team has.

And here in, in the US
and certainly in kind of in

North America, we tend to follow, a more distributor approach system
and mainly it's geographic location.

I mean, we can't I joke with Andrew
one time he was like, why can't you just take a train
to where you want to go?

And I said, Andrew, it'd be like
four days, man, I can't take a train.

But, you know, geographically
we have such a big area and I think that a lot of our sales,
sales reps and kind of our general approaches
to be very knowledgeable, but to also work through a large amount
of highly knowledgeable distributors,

I think, for your team with,
you know, in the UK where that approach is more direct, you,
you almost become extremely well rounded because like you said,
you may work with a seven year old child or a 97 year old new to vision loss,
somebody who just wants to read a book.

And that, you know,
that really must keep you on your toes and also keeps you very current with
exactly what's going on on the ground, be it all across every spectrum of
customer.

Right? I mean, you have to really think
on your feet.

You're absolutely right.

We have to be they,
you know, adapt to different situations.

And we have to train our staff
well on knowing all our product portfolio, you know, so
all trying to set level where we train them and update them
regularly on all the new features, new benefits, make sure they understand how they can impact
people and benefit people.

So, staff are trained with six salespeople
in, in the UK.

They're so geographically based.

And you're right be to
we're very fortunate here.

So relatively small country
with a very high population.

So we've got,
you know, that sort of combination where we can reach people
and there are people there to be reached.

And, we also supported a very fortunate, a gentleman who's Martin
Roberts on the podcast
who's been with me for over 20 years, been he travels all around the country.
He's blind.

And he's also a sort of specialist
on the road technology where we need that extra knowledge,
that extra level of expertise.

So Martin supports all our salespeople, you know, during the week, in those,
where extra help is required.

And we're very lucky.

We've got a good support team, you know,

I mean, trainers, we've got a support
team, we've got technicians.

So if technology does need repairing
for whatever reason, you know, it comes back to our office
here.

We, technicians can repair
all our products.

The majority are HumanWare products,
but we do support a couple of other third party products to to complement our range and we make sure that all our products
can be repaired here.

We don't have to send things back
to Canada or, or elsewhere.

So people are without the without their
product for a minimum period of time.

Hopefully what we can bring to the table
here in the UK is that experience of being with those customers
of all very different levels, needs, you know,
we have that first hand experience.

I mean, when we use our low vision
products, I mean, we connect with selling hundreds of them in schools,
but we only sell them because we go into the schools
and we actually show it to the students and we show it to the support staff,
the specialist teacher and the class teacher,
the mum and dad. It's on there.

You know, we're doing the hands on
and we go and see someone else in the afternoon
doing the same thing.

So, you know,
I think we are very fortunate in UK.

We have that direct hands on knowledge
of being with the end users.

And, it's a- they have one thing in common, you know, that that level
of varying levels of sight loss, but that, you know,
very different individuals and have different
needs for the technology that they use it.

Well, fantastic.

And thanks for just continuing
to continuing to, to be a part of all of this, because I know it,
you know, it's a long road, right.

And we just keep going.

And I know we have a lot of things, that are coming and that are around
and that we continue to support on.

So glad you could come on
and we could kind of spotlight.

You're not a traditional partner per se.

You're a you're a HumanWare employee.

You're you were more than a partner.
You are a part of the fabric.

It's in the blood, in the blood.

So thank you for joining.

And we, you know, we'll look forward to hopefully
having other members of the UK team on.

So thanks a ton, Alan.

Thanks, Peter. Nice
speaking to you. All the very best.

Hey everybody.

It's Peter Tucic from HumanWare and I am going to be demonstrating
the all new pedestrian traffic signal detection feature
that we have on the StellarTrek.

I'm standing outside.

It is a windy day,
which is actually a great time to promote this feature
because sometimes when it's windy, you cannot perfectly hear
the parallel traffic.

That may be indicative of a green light.

So what I'm going to do
is go for a little walk, and we're going to dive in and look at
how we're going to use this data feature that is available for all StellarTrek
users on our StellarTrek

Let's go.

All right, everyone, so I'm approaching
the intersection of Taylor Street and Racine Avenue here in Little Italy
in Chicago, passing my favorite corner.

This is a good one.

We have cigars, wine, pizza, coffee.

Intersection four traffic light.

West Taylor Street
crossing south facing Avenue.

So again, we get the announcement
as the StellarTrek does.

It tells me this is a lighted intersection and that we are going to be coming up
to it. And, about 20, 30ft
before we actually get here.

Now, once I'm at this intersection,
what I'm going to do and I know that site is red
because I can tell my parallel traffic here, but I'm going to press
and hold my up arrow on the StellarTrek

And when I do that: Applications.

Pedestrian crossing detection.

The first, the first option here is pedestrian
crossing detection.

Again,
this would be to look at the crosswalks.

That's not what we're trying to do.

And I'm going to press confirm
on that option.

Camera ready.

And at this point it would be
if I wanted to identify the zebra stripes on the street,
which is not what I'm looking to do.

What I can do,
though, is if I press confirm.

So again, we we can come into our pedestrian
crossing feature and press confirm.

And I will then receive a series of tones
based off of the traffic lights.

So I'm going to do that now.

I'm going to press confirm
detecting traffic signal.

And what will happen is
when I'm at this intersection and we will scan and upon scanning

I will receive a series of tones again.

And if I need to. And this is kind of.

So we're going to get a green light
detected message.

And you'll hear that rapid tones,
meaning that at this point

I can cross the street.

I also do hear
my parallel traffic. So let's go across

Now again.

As I cross, I'm going to continue
to receive this auditory feedback that is going to cue me in
as to whether I'm crossing straight or if I am possibly veering to
to get out of the intersection.

Now that I'm cross again,
we're going to cross this way as well.

I'm going to turn
and this time, instead of getting that, since I'm on this again,
it's picking up the green light as I turn.

Let's wait through this light cycle,
though, and we're going to pick it up when it is parked at a red light
so we can hear how that sounds.

All right.

So I'm back at the same intersection.

And again this time I'm at a red light.

And you will receive
these incremental slow tones that are going to be indicative
that they're telling me this light is red.

I certainly can hear
my parallel traffic is stopped next to me, and I definitely hear cars
coming in front of me.

So I know that as well.

Again,
this is a reinforcement of my existing skills.

And now this light is turned and
I can confirm that it has indeed turned.

So I'm going across the street.

Again, as I cross we're going to receive the feedback. And I just put that down.

So I want it to know where the siren was
that I'm hearing.

But I can use that as I cross
the street as well.

I'm going across this one again,
but we'll catch up later on.

All right, everyone,
I'm right back where I started, but I want to reiterate
what we just went through because it might have been
a little bit loud.

And we certainly hear some kiddos
playing in parks here.

But what I was doing
when I was at that intersection pressing Hold up arrow to get me into
my applications area on the StellarTrek

Once I was in that, the first option
was pedestrian crossing detection.

I press confirm, which is the center
button between your arrow keys

And once I was on the pedestrian crossing
detection, I pressed confirm again to bring up the pedestrian traffic
signal detection, where I could then hold my StellarTrek
up, allow the cameras to see the intersection,
and tell me via tones if that was, the, you know,
that the signal was present or not, whether the light was green or red.

Keep in mind,
if I did veer, I would lose that tone so I would know I was starting to veer.

Also, this is something
that is going to be in beta, and we certainly want to collect a lot
more data as we look at how this is going to be implemented,
we are not able to be everywhere all the time
and cannot test every intersection.

So there will be some
that maybe don't work as well or at all.

And we'd love to be able to gather
that information from all of your units as you use the product
to help us build our models.

Again,
this is an entirely offline AI model that is being utilized to
to run on, the units.

If you do so, choose.

You can share those units with us.

You can share the pictures,
we can have a look at them, and, and determine, you know, how
that will help us build our model.

But if you do not want to share
your intersection photos and videos, you can certainly turn
that off in settings.

And we certainly respect your right
to choose to do that.

Let us know if there is, anything further that you would like to stay on the
StellarTrek.

You can certainly send us an email at
[email protected].

Thanks everybody.

All right everybody, it's time for the upcoming
shows.

It is the summer show season here
in North America.

We will be at the American Council
of the Blind conference that will be taking place from July 4th to
the 11th at the Hyatt Regency in Dallas.

Please come see us. We'll be exhibiting.

We also,
Rachel will be giving some sessions and we would love to demonstrate
lots of fun new things.

There may even be a multiline screen
reader demonstration available, so come say hello.

We'll also be at the National Federation
of the Blind conference taking place in New Orleans.

That'll be at New Orleans Marriott,
also at the Sheraton New Orleans.

That'll take place
from July 8th to the 13th.

Again, we'll have a user group.

We'll have a booth of fun.

We will have demonstrations.

And certainly there are many, many different ways
we interact at all of those conferences.

So come say hi
to one of us who will be at the booth, and we look forward to seeing you
at a table at a booth near you sooner than later.

If you have comments or suggestions,
we'd love to hear from you.

Please send them to
[email protected].

That's [email protected]

Thanks so much for listening to See Things
Differently.

We'll see you next month.