S1E11 - Summit Without Sight

Hello and welcome to the HumanWare
See Things Differently podcast.

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and David Woodbridge as we bring you engaging interviews from
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Hello

See Things Differently listeners,
and welcome to episode 11 of the podcast.

I can't believe we are into November
already.

The holidays are approaching
and pretty soon we'll be into a new year.

We are taking a little bit
of a different approach today.

David Woodbridge is traveling
so he is not able to be here with us, but I'm so excited
to be with Mathieu Paquette, who is one of our product managers here
at HumanWare.

And we are with some fantastic
people who have taken on what most of us wouldn't
consider doing.

And that is a climb of Mount Kilimanjaro.

I have so many questions for these folks,
and it's my pleasure to introduce

Doctor
Conchita Hernandez and her partner Sachin.

They live in Northern Virginia and Doctor
Conchita has low vision, describes herself as blind, and has completed
this climb with her partner.

They are avid technology users,
and we're going to find out all about the tech
that they have used during their climb, and being that they use technology
and are involved with the blindness assistive technology
side of the equation.

HumanWare / EssilorLuxottica we're honored to sponsor them
during this climb, and we've provided them with some Ray-Ban Metas and it's going to be
a fascinating conversation.

So welcome Doctor
Conchita and Sachin to the podcast.

We're so excited to have you here.

Thank you so much. Thanks for having us.

Thanks for having us.

So I have so many questions.

I guess I want to start kind of at the beginning
when you endeavored to do this climb.

What was the training like?

You know,
I train as well for different things.

I enjoy working out and exercising,
but you guys have taken it so many steps further.

So how did you develop
the strength needed to do the climb, and what was that training like for you?

So we did a lot of training at the gym.

We live in an area that really doesn't
have elevation, as much.

So we did some outdoor climbs,
some hikes, but we really committed ourselves
to going regularly to the gym.

And we did weightlifting
as well as StairMaster as well as, treadmill stuff.

So that's kind of how we prepared.

But I will say that no matter what, you're not prepared for sure you think you're ready,
and then you're just like, what did I get myself into here?

Yeah, well, actually,
I'm going to take a step back here at all the training and everything
and go one step behind.

And that question would be,
and this is coming from a self-professed couch potato,
but the question would be why?

What motivated you to
to get that going?

I've always had the desire to climb
Mount Kilimanjaro, and it's not something

I was, pursuing constantly,
but I was at a meeting at the UN, but little over a year
ago, and, just the group I was, talking
to, you know, in between meetings, we got into this discussion of, you know,
different things that people have and, you know, just having side conversation
about different things.

And this one group talks about,
you know, a couple people that I was in conversation with said something about,
Kilimanjaro hike they had.

And that's when I yeah, you know, kind of got into that whole discussion
about Kilimanjaro and they said, if you know, we, they, you know, if I want to do it,
let's find something together.

So they approached me when they're planning another trip and they planned
the entire thing around my schedule.

So that's kind of how it came about.

And so you then went to Conchita and said,
hey, I'm going to climb

Mount Kilimanjaro. Are you in?

Is that how that conversation went?

And I very naively was like, sure.

And I had no idea what I was doing.

It just kind of speaks to the power
of networking, that you met these folks kind of by happenstance at a meeting,
and they were very active in their lifestyle,
and it sounded like you are as well.

And given that you guys said, hey,
you know, let's organize this climb.

Now, I know
you said that you guys trained in a gym and that is just excellent.

I kind of have a home gym as well
that that I use.

Did you train with the, folks that you met from the UN?

Were you able to train with them
to kind of work out a climbing system?

The folks I met at the UN,
they lived all over the world, so there was no way
to kind of coordinate with them.

So the people I trained with was, you know, one of them lived locally there.

He was one of our guides.

So we specifically were doing
all the training with that individual.

It was you know, it's
hard to do the training with, you know, not
everyone wants to climb Kilimanjaro.

So to find a guy, it is not an easy thing.

So we were fortunate enough to train
with at least one guide that went with us.

But what's complicated about the mountain is,
even with the guide that we trained with.

And he's Andrew, he was amazing.

We had two other guides
that were coming from Utah.

And they're amazing as well.

But at some point on the mountain,
the local people end up being our guides because it's just so intense that we
we did some guiding with the guides that we took
and then we ended up being guided by the local guides
who are there on the trip.

Because it's just become
so intense for everybody.

Sure, there's nothing like a local
to kind of give you some ideas for success or, you know,
even if you're visiting a new town, you want to talk to the locals.

If you're climbing a mountain like you
guys did, you want to talk to the locals.

Switching,
I guess, to the technology piece.

So you guys are doing this,
this wonderful feat of pure strength and will and determination.

What technology did you guys use?

We can start with
maybe the climbing technology.

You know, things that help
you kind of grip on to the mountain.

And then maybe we'll hop over into the
the blindness assistive technology space.

So for climbing different blind people climb the different- it's more hiking.

So different blind people
hike differently.

Original idea was different
than what we ended up doing.

For myself, because I have low vision.

I was like,
well, I'm just going to follow behind because that's worked really well here.

And I should be okay.

And then Sachin was going to use a method
where he used, a hiking pole on his right hand and then, kind of used his left
hand as a tether with a guide.

And as soon as we got there, we realized the way we train just
was not going to work, on the mountain.

So we ended up, doing a system
that Sachin and his guides came up with, which was you share a pole, a hiking pole,
on your left hand with the guide.

And so you're pretty much both using that one,
and then you have your own on the right.

So if a guide needs to,
like, point or be like, put your foot on this rock,
they can take the pole.

And that ended up being a lot simpler.

And both Sachin and I use that technique
because there just no way to follow behind with all the rocks and everything for me
to, like, find my placing.

That's fascinating
that you were able to adapt, kind of like you said at the beginning.

You know,
you think you're ready, you train and you build your upper body strength
and your coordination, and then you get out there
and you're like, oh my goodness, this is so much more
than I thought it would be.

And I love the story
of just the adapting that that you guys were able to do
is the sharing the pole.

As you mentioned, I've,
I've done a little downhill skiing.

Is that kind of similar
where you're both holding the pole horizontally almost
and using it as kind of a longer tether.

So the way I used the pole at, at
the mountain was so we basically had two poles.

So I was holding on to two.

But the middle pole of shared
between myself and the guide. So his hand was above on the top of the pole
and my hand was like slightly below.

And so every time he moved that middle pole,
I knew where to place my footing went.

So if I knew step over something.

So it helped a lot.

And placement
of where my next step is going to be.

So it would need to go a little further to the right, because a lot of the terrain
was like rocks.

Yeah. So you know how you where you place your footing was critical
so you didn't twist your ankle.

So that's like a tactile system of him
leading you and then you knowing exactly where to go.

Yeah. That's so great.

Jumping into the assistive technology
space as mentioned.

You know, as a EssilorLuxottica
was able to sponsor you guys for this climb
and you have some Ray-Ban Metas.

How did the glasses help you either before the climb in your training
or if you use them during the climb?

We did a little bit of both.

So we used the glasses.

Well, just in our everyday life, just using them to read stuff,
using them to navigate, and be like,
what's around me and, get place to place.

We also use them, at the gym
to kind of find our way around.

And we,
we actually practice different prompts.

So one of the prompts that we found
that did work was asking the glasses, like is or someone using that machine
and it would tell us, and so part of using the glasses is kind of
like you have to imagine scenarios and then figure out what
question you're going to ask.

So it was really good at that.

And also kind of like find the buttons
on the machines that we needed to locate.

It was really good at that.

In terms of like finding the weights, that was a little different,
like changing the weight.

That, that it couldn't quite read that,
but it worked really well for, for navigational stuff.

And then on the mountain,
we used them a lot to take pictures.

And because again, I can't like,

I already have all my hands,
all our hands full with the poles.

Right.

So we use them a lot to take pictures.

There was no reception on the mountain
at all.

So everything we had, our phones
and our glasses ended up being picture devices
because nothing, nothing worked.

So you can tell the pictures that we took
because I did it, it didn't even occur to me
that, you know, when you're wearing a hat, there's like, when you take the picture
with the glasses, the rim of the hat
is like showing up in some of my pictures.

But I think it's cool because it's
kind of like the perspective of like, oh, this is coming from the,
my point of view, as opposed to like a picture taken
by somebody else.

Yeah, it's definitely,
it's definitely gives you a good memory.

It's a good memory
right, of the time you spent up there.

And that's actually my, my,
my next question would be, you know, for

I've read, you know, people climbing
different mountains and everything and everyone who gets to the top,
you know, we'll talk about what the view was like
and so on, so forth.

The pride that they felt.

Obviously for you,
the view is, is not really that important.

But what is the feeling that you got
when you finally reach the summit?

I would say for me,
the whole experience walking and the seven days that we were hiking, if each day was very each
day was very different because, you know, first two days
we're walking through a rainforest and the smells, the sounds,
all that added to the experience.

And the third and fourth day was more,
more like, gravel, rocky terrains,
but still some greenery, I guess.

And then the fifth day was pure just alpine desert, sandy everywhere,
you know, kind of miserable.

But that was the terrain.

But, you know,
so every day had different kind of feel, and fortunately,
we didn't have any bad weather, so that kind of worked out,
but that, that experience, you know, the smells, the sounds,
the temperature change, everything.

You know, the air
we got, it got extremely windy.

Yes.

It was, tough.

But, you know, experiencing all that.

What you hear people talk about that was, you know,
that all added to the total experience.

Yeah.

Were there any moments where you were- maybe. regret is a strong word, but like,
you were second guessing yourself
about getting on to that endeavor.

I had that question too
are there moments where you're like "I'm done"

Yeah.

Especially
the, you know, the the fifth day making our way to the summit
where we started, at 15,700ft and we are going all the way to 19,400ft, which, you know, which was really hard
because we started at midnight and, I was there, and that was after,
hiking all day the previous day.

So I didn't get any rest at all.

And I was two hours into it
when we started at midnight.

I was literally trying to keep my eyes open while we were walking,
and we are walking really slow.

And it was because we can't go too fast
because if we walk too fast, the altitude was going to get you.

If you walk too slow,
the cold wind chills, you know you'll get hypothermia.

So you're kind of stuck
one way or the other.

So it was, it was it was really hard
where I started telling myself, why am I doing this?
But I just kept going.

And you can't exactly just call Uber
and go home.

Right? Right. Exactly.

Yeah.

You definitely think to yourself
on that summit day like, it's fine.

I'm willing to die on this mountain.

I don't care anymore. It's okay.

It's like you were just so over it.

That's, But yeah, it's.

I think for me, it's more than,

I would say more than physical training.

It was a mental exercise
at that point. Yes.

All the, all the physical training
that didn't really matter on the fifth day as much
because you're not exercising as much and know
you're not moving that fast.

But everything else
is fighting against you.

The, the,
you know, the, the tiredness, the you know, lack of sleep, the, the extreme high incline
with very slippery sand because you're taking every step, but you're taking things
like a sliding back down two steps.

I know that, that such a climb
is an expensive endeavor.

And I know that you had the a few sponsors
for this trip.

Yeah.

And Rachel mentioned
before that EssilorLuxottica, our parent company was one of those.

But I know that you had other sponsors.

Who would you like to maybe give them a quick shout out
and see what they helped you with?

We have friends of ours
who, helped us, financially sponsor.

And then also AIRA was,
another big sponsor and probably our, out of biggest sponsor was, Accessibility
Accelerator.

They and they did
a lot of the logistics as well.

So that's the organization
that kind of coordinated the entire group, because that was 48 of us
that went on this club from all around the world
with different disabilities.

So the 48 of us, went up, but we also had, you know, local support from a local company,
200 people supporting the 48 people.

So it's a big A accelerator,

I would say our top sponsor that,
you know, obviously, you guys, along with

AIRA, is the the gear that we got from
Accelerator, from you guys was phenomenal.

I would say we were probably the most
comfortable on top of the mountain.

We were not freezing like everyone else.

Yeah,
everyone else was definitely freezing.

Because we had such great gear that,

EssilorLuxottica sent us
so we were very grateful.

We were the only ones that were not cold
on the mountain.

When you
when you got up to the top and you,

I don't know if you turned around
to just kind of felt, you know, the,
the distance that you had come.

Was there any pictures that you took
or any maybe things that you may have said to, to each other
or to your climber mates?

Like, what was that feeling like
when you had reached the top and you're like, we did it.

I mean, can you describe that for us?

So
Conchita got there a few months before me and I as soon as I found Conchita I broke down,
like I was extremely emotional.

I was yeah, it took everything out of me.

So I broke down and bottles
while I was being emotional.

One of the organizers,
he comes running with the satellite phone saying, here is, this individual
good friend of mine, and she was on the across
the globe at the Dead Sea.

So on the lowest point of the world,
calling me to congratulate me.

So we had this,
you know, so I had to kind of change my being all emotional to be all excited.

So that's how this
switch was a little rough, but.

Yeah, it it's a mix of emotion.

You're definitely up there.

You're like,
oh my gosh, I can't believe it.

And you're so excited.

And you're also like,
I'm never ever doing this again.

Like, what was I thinking?
This is a horrible idea.

So it's just such a mix of emotions because you've been walking
for the last five days.

And it's just gotten to this point.

And, you know,
at some point on the mountain, you thought you weren't going to make it.

So just getting to the top,
you're like, oh, okay, we made it.

This is this is it like, okay,
what were we thinking?

But glad it's over.

What would you say to everyone who's maybe thinking about, hey,
how can I get more active?

Or how can I use my technology
that I already have to stay active?

I think that honestly, the biggest barrier to blind people
getting out in the community and doing any type of activity, whether it be hikes
or swimming or join a group is transportation,
and I feel like there is so much right now in technology both to find out
what's going on around you.

So using your note taker to like,
research things, to look things up, but then also using navigational tools
like the rate that needs to be like, okay, what is the street sign?

Where am I going if you don't have kind of
like a little bit of research skills?

And then a little bit of like orientation skills, it's
going to be really, really hard.

No matter what's exists in the world,
you're not going to have access to it.

So it doesn't matter
how good of a hiker you are if you don't know how to use technology,
it's going to be a huge barrier for you
to be able to go out and find things.

We're part of a group here of like,
blind people doing stuff, and like, they send emails out
and they do hikes and they do.

So we have to figure out like,
okay, let's use our technology to figure out what's the metro,
how are we going to get there?

Are we gonna have to Uber?

Are we taking paratransit
like use your resources.

And I feel like
if you don't know how to use technology, you're going to be your biggest barrier
to be able to get out and do the things that are going to help
you be active.

So Kilimanjaro is now behind both of you.

What's ahead?

This there any big project
or anything else that you wish to tackle in the future?

I think

Kilimanjaro sets a new baseline of, like,
what's difficult.

So we don't have any plans for, like, an-.

Everyone's like,
are you going to do like, Everest?

You know, next we're like, absolutely not.

We're not doing Everest.

But I think it- as blind people, we're always told, like, you can't do this,
you can't do this, you can't do that.

And I think, like, there's nothing
that's going to be harder than Everest.

Like it has nothing.

And so I think for me, it just sets
a baseline of like, no matter what.

Like, I know I can do this because I did

I did, you know, I did Kilimanjaro.

So not necessarily plans to climb any bigger mountain,
but rather just like continue to do the work that we do, like
Sachin works in the blindness field.

I worked in the blindness field,
and I think when we come across like negative attitudes
or low expectations, this is a good baseline of like, actually,
no, that's very doable.

But then also
when we're questioning ourselves as we're going through these spaces of like,
oh, this is hard, is complicated,

I don't remember, okay,
we climbed Kilimanjaro.

This is a piece of cake in comparison.

I have a lot of blind people in my life.

Obviously, being that I work
at HumanWare and the things that I see my colleagues do and, and,
you know, not let being blind be an obstacle in any shape,
way, shape or form in their daily lives.

Just, you know, we have a colleague here in Quebec who plays in,
I can't remember the name of the sport, but it's similar to hockey,
but for blind people.

Yeah,
it's just awesome and good for you for not letting that be an obstacle
to having a great, active life.

It might inspire me to get on my bike
a little bit more often.

As I said at the beginning,
I'm- I'm a couch potato.

But I did buy a bike last year,
and I need to get on it a bit more often.

Like Conchita say,
I don't have any goals in mind.

I, I'm one of those
who like to challenge myself like I have, you know, obviously climbing another mountain is probably
not the one I'm looking for next.

It might be something else.

The last one I did was a, long
distance, bike race, which, which has been a few years
since I've done that.

It was a 206 mile, one day bike race,
which I was very challenging as well.

So see what's what.

What's the next big challenge?
That would be interesting.

Thank you guys
so, so very much for coming on and for sharing your story,
your experiences.

It's so neat to hear about something that that you've done
that I don't think a lot of people can say that they've done
is literally climbed a mountain.

So if you guys can literally do it,
then all of us can figuratively, you know?

Yeah.

Or maybe even literally climb certain
mountains that that we may come across.

Thank you guys so very much.

Thank you. Thank you.

Welcome, everybody, to the Hot Topic segment.

This month we want to talk about going to the gym or having a home gym.

And our fantastic guests doctor Conchita
and her partner Sachin are still here and they've agreed to chime
in on this topic.

So I'll, jump in first and say that I've had the opportunity to do both.

I have attended the gym
for a couple of years, and now I have a home gym,
so I have a treadmill and, some weights that I do for weightlifting,
and I just follow, various workouts.

Right now I'm using Apple Fitness Plus.

I think it's great.

There's all kinds of different workouts,
but a lot of the challenges that I can-

I find with the gym, whether I'm traveling
and want to workout in a hotel gym, is knowing where the machine is
that I'd like to use.

And then, as was mentioned previously,
knowing is somebody on that machine, knowing the buttons,
as to how to get the machine going in at the speed I want, if it's, a bike
or getting the resistance or a treadmill.

So my question is, and it's hard to know
which is the best, but I think I at this moment,
I'm preferring the home gym because once I have the equipment set up,
I know how to use it.

And it's very easy
to, to get on and do my workout.

But, Conchita,
I'm going to throw it over to you.

What do you think?

Is- I don't again, I don't know
if I want to say better or best, but what has worked best for you, home
gym or going to the gym?

I think there's a difference between what I wish I had
and then the reality of my life.

So I've never had a home gym.

And I think
there's a lot like- you need the space.

You need, like, the money
for the equipment.

You need all that stuff.

So I would love the home gym.

I think it would be amazing.

But we right now, go to the gym.

Going to the gym as a blind person
takes us four hours of our time.

Three hours of our time
because of transportation, and waiting on paratransit
and just everything else.

So, yeah, I would love to have a home gym,
but I think the reality of having a home gym is, is more difficult, for a lot of people than going to the gym.

Sachin, what what are your thoughts?

I think I'm pretty similar
with Conchita, and I've.

You know, have had a gym in the past.

I don't have a full set up
like I used to in the past, but

I still like the idea of going to the gym
just because it makes me commit to doing something that,
I may find excuses when I'm at home.

So that's the reason
I like going to the gym.

And plus, a lot of things I want to do.

It's impossible
to have all those equipment at your house.

You know, just treadmill straight or.

Yeah, because you get so focused on just couple of things,
because there's only so much you can have.

Right? You know, unless you
have a massive space. Right.

And who has that?

Nobody has a warehouse on their property
for a gym.

Transportation does put a barrier
because it does take a chunk.

And so how have you found,
getting assistance in the gym?

You know, once you're there, is it, you know, once
you have been going for a while, folks tend to recognize you and you just kind of
learn the layout and your machines.

Or how have you found that process?

We have found that
it's like shopping for anything else.

We went to a gym that we despised, just
like everything was too close together.

It was too loud, like
you had to wait in line to use machines.

And it was not ideal.

We found another gym that, like,
everything is spread apart.

You don't have to wait,
to use the machines.

The people that are really friendly.

So I think it's like anything else,
you're going to have really bad gyms.

You're going to have good gyms,
and even the same type of gym.

Like, we use Planet Fitness, for example.

Like we've gone to different Planet
Fitness and they're completely different.

It depends on
like going to an individual one. So, it depends asking for help.

Depending on the individual gym.

What's nice is, you know, I'm sure there's lots of people around
that you can ask for help.

And it's also nice,
you know, if you do go to a gym, you're, presumably you're paying
for that membership.

And so you're putting, you know,
that money into that experience as well.

I think of the other machines.

And do you use any other aspects
of the gym like the pool or.

I know some, you know, can be health clubs as well
and they have smoothie bars and things.

What I guess in addition to the machines
do you use or do you guys just use the machines
and then head on home?

I'm really like,
we use just the equipment.

We have used like their massager and they have this,
I don't know what they call it, like a it's a hot water massage,
but they're nice.

It's like a massage bed, but it runs hot
water underneath it, so it's, Yeah.

So it's it's.

I never seen anywhere. That's
why it's kind of nice.

So I do use that occasionally.

And I will say we use,
we use the location of the gym, to then do other errands.

So, like, our favorite Indians
grocery store is close to the gym.

So then we'll go to the gym,
and then while we're there, like you saw guys say,
that's a benefit of the gym, even though it's not technically part
of the membership.

That that is very, very helpful.

You know, just to share perspective,
you know, if you can get to the gym, then here are some advantages.

If someone is able to
maybe set up a machine or two, in a basement or something,
then that could be an advantage.

And this is usually where we always end up
with these little segments.

There's pluses and minuses to both.

And I would say that
as long as you're active in some form, as much as you can and comfortable
with, that's the true win of all of this.

Absolutely.

And I think, you know, as blind people,
I'm always like, if I were sighted, how much would I be saving
if I wasn't taking all these Ubers?

Right.

So maybe I would be, you know, maybe, like, it is worth it buying the equipment, because all the transportation we spend
money on would add up to that eventually.

So it's, it's it's
one of those type of things of like, how much are we paying in transportation
that we could actually, you know, put towards equipment.

Thank you guys.

Always fun to have a chat about, activities and, and what gyms offer and what home setups can offer, along with,
you know, customized workouts and things.

But coming from the
the champion climbers over there, I,

I really appreciate your input.

Welcome, everybody, to the Trials and Triumph segment for this episode.

We have some fun ones today.

They're trials,
but they're kind of silly.

So we're gonna jump in here
and tell you guys all the details.

So I'll start.

And my kind of silly story happened
not long ago.

There was a sighted family member in town, and we were showing him around,
and we wanted to take him to dinner.

So my husband and I recommended
a great barbecue place, and we drove there and started
walking to the entrance of the restaurant.

And we walked inside
and there was some very upbeat music.

There was a lot of different people,
but it did not have the same ambiance, the same smells, the same atmosphere
as the barbecue place that my husband and I knew,
which should have.

So we started looking around.
We even sat down.

We're like, well,
this is an interesting place.

And then my family member started
looking around and was like, this is not the right place. So we were able to exit gracefully and
and found the right place.

But it was just kind of a funny reminder that even for those who have full vision, even they can
sometimes still walk into the wrong place.

And the clues were very obvious: smells
what you hear, the atmosphere and I just thought that, you know, we talk
sometimes about how blind people can walk into areas that they get maybe a little lost in,
and it happens to everybody.

So it made me kind of feel good.

That wasn't just just me who sometimes
gets lost, that everybody gets lost.

And it was a happy ending
because we found the barbecue place.

We were just one door over and had
an absolutely amazing, amazing dinner.

Can I ask the obvious question?

What about the sign
on the front of the restaurant?

Wouldn't
that be different as well? It would, but where we parked it was a back parking lot, so we ended up walking
in like a back entrance.

So yes, signs are very helpful too,
but I guess I don't have a sign saying this is not the restaurant
you're looking for.

That's right.

Let's see if my one equals that one.

My one just shows you that,
you people have to have responsibility on both sides of the fence.

Not just us as blind people,
but also sighted people.

So I was at a conference
a couple of months ago, and we had these little sort
of five minute segments.

So you had to get up there
quickly onto the stage, get yourself set up really rapidly,
do your presentation get off again, and you have exactly five minutes because
there was lots of stuff to get through.

So I was using my Monarch this day
so people might not realize that the Monarchs actually fairly large.

It's like a 15 inch gaming laptop, and the only thing they had on the actual
stage was a lectern.

So there's some
there's not much room in there. So.

So I had my noetes already up and running
on the monarch and I thought, yep, all you need to do really is just find it,
you know, where the microphone is.

So started, got it up onto the stage
because I thought, understand, you know, if I go up too much.

So the stage went to put my Mmonarch
on the lectern.

If a somewhat recent I did.

So when I put it down,
it wasn't fitting on the lectern properly.

So I thought,
oh well, I'll just I'll just push it towards the back of the lectern
a little bit more.

Now, the problem with that is
there was a laptop already on the lectern which was used by other presenters to,
you know, preload their PowerPoint slides.

So two things happened there.

The number one,
I should have actually double, double checked
by touching the lectern with my hand before I put my Monarch down
to see if there's a laptop.

There was the left. There was.

Secondly, it didn't occur
to any sighted person to say, David, you're actually pushing
another laptop off the lectern.

And by the time they said that the left
the laptop on the back, the lectern was already
in sort of roughly in the air, it was actually tipping backwards
off the lectern.

Oh, no.

The personel- sighted personel had to run around
the front of the lectern and actually catch the laptop
as it actually hit airborne, and so rather than.

So sorry, enough with that.

But that was the right.

So I did my talk because I was literally just using the microphone
and the actual Monarch

But then what happened
was because the laptop had fallen off all the cords, it came out
and everything got disconnected from the conference audio,
the conference video conference network.

You just derailed it all.

I did, right.

So rather than having a so rather
than being a very quick five minute for each person,
it was a five minute quick section.

So I did my one and I had to have a 10
or 15 minute break while I got the audio and the video reconnected.

So but I just thought sometimes,
I mean, sometimes you think, well, why don't blind people- sorry, sighted people tell you
what's happening in a space?

But then again, it's also our responsibility to make sure
that when you put something down, you're not going to knock something off
or do other silly things.

So I just thought it was a bit of a lesson
for both, you know, people to people to say, look,
we haven't got much room.

There's already a laptop.

There
would you like to like us to move it or put your hand down and say,
if it's all clear and then put the thing down
that you're actually using?

But luckily it had a good ending.

The thing got reconnected.

My Monarch was safe,
so everything worked out in the end.

But yeah, it was just hilarious.

That's some great advertising right there.

Everybody's going to remember,
oh, the guy with the Monarch.

Yeah, the conference got stopped 50 minutes.

That's fantastic.

But it's true.

You know, we both blind or sighted,
should maybe check our surroundings a little bit.

And before we put our equipment up
on, on stage or on the podium.

Well, dude, I love that story.

It's a good lesson for all of us
to just be a little more aware of, of our surroundings.

And lecterns
can also be different sizes too.

So sometimes I find I have plenty of room
to put down my stuff, and sometimes I find that
that there is things on the lectern and you're kind of Tetris-ing them
to, to get them to fit.

So I think this was a story
with a happy ending, and I'm really glad that the conference was reconnected
and you were able to give your talk and tell everybody how great the Monarch was,
even if it didn't quite fit on the podium.

Correct.

And look, I have been finishing off
this little segment too.

I hope your barbecue
was completely satisfying once you got to the right restaurant and were able to eat the right cuisine
at your table.

Oh, it was absolutely brilliant.
Excellent.

Absolutely amazing. Well done.

Welcome everybody to the Partner Corners segment.

This segment is a short little interview of someone
who is a partner of ours, whether it's one of our dealers or distribution partners
or whether it's another organization.

This month I have the absolute pleasure
to have Jason Martin on.

He is the product manager at APH for Wing-It, and it's my pleasure to welcome you, Jason,
to our lovely little podcast.

Thank you.

It's great to be here for the first time.

I just want to start out, how did you come to APH
and what was that journey like?

And then of course, we'll drill down
a little bit and chat about Wing-IT, but just give us a brief overview.

How much time do we have?

As much time as you want.

So so my journey to APH is a long one, actually, in my family,

I come from a and when I say this,
it sounds so Lord of the rings.

It really does.

I come from a long line of blind
individuals, and I actually do.

And so, I'm a third generation graduate of the Alabama School
for the blind.

And so you do going into a career,
into blindness and teaching blindness.

It was kind of a no brainer for me.

It took me an undergraduate degree
to realize that.

But, once, once I realized that I really enjoyed special education.

That's what I dove into.

And I became an excellent trainer
and worked with the Center of Assistive Technology training.

That's, in many of the areas throughout the US
and basically came over to APH to learn how to develop products, really with a teacher's expertise.

But also now getting this,
this element of, what's it like to create a product?

What are the ins and outs?

And those are two completely different
fields, actually.

Like when individuals consider
APH they really think about TVIs and blindness.

But really we're here
creating products and, and it's, it's been a big learning curve,
I would say coming over, but it's a bit of a creative one as well.

I can imagine, you know, I sometimes call
it being on the other side of the table.

You know, we do a lot of shows,
trade shows, conferences, and I've been that person
that's come up to the company's tables and just shown so much excitement.

And I love looking at the products.

And now I'm fortunate
to be on the other side of the table where I get to share the products
with customers, and it kind of sounds like you had a similar journey, if you will.

Yeah, that's that's it really.

And it's odd, you know, for
for many, many years you become an expert.

I mean, many,
many individuals in the AT world, that are AT trainers and AT teachers,
and I still always will consider myself a teacher,
the visually impaired and AT trainer.

And so in that sense, when you're
coming through this, you get the ins and outs of a product, but you get it
from a user's perspective, right?

It's totally different to be on our side
developing, something like Wing-IT or some of the latest Monarch applications
or really anything for the Monarch.

To be honest, is it's a gift.

It is.

We are so appreciative of the gift
that you guys bring to.

We'll just say the Monarch table, right?

We need developers,
and we need engineers and product managers who can guide that whole process.

So tell us about Wing-It.

What was the brainchild for that.

And maybe if you can share a little bit
about some other Monarch applications that are going to be
maybe out in the wild soon.

Sure, sure.

Well, I can tell you, just to start out
with like Monarch applications and development, APH partnered with HumanWare to create an SDK for the Monarch, and that was something with this product
we'd never done before.

And so creating a software development kit,
something that would allow us to continue building on to

Monarch as a platform
was, was really, incredible.

And so two of the apps I've already built
with the team here at APH are.

And when I say I've built up in the
product manager, I don't code whatsoever.

But I play one on TV.

So, so like I work with our developers and I do lead their direction and lead
where, the product, should come from or should become
and what it should end up being.

And so the two products that are
that are out and on Monarch right now are Monarch chess
and the Monarch Startup Guide.

And so those were different.

And, if you use the Monarch startup,
it's creative.

It's you're squishing butterflies
or pointing and clicking butterflies.

To, to learn how to point and click.

And chess was kind of an iteration
of learning how to point and click.

So Wing-IT, this,
this new application was created based on this need of
how are students receiving tactile graphics, on the fly
or impromptu tactile graphics.

And so what we found is that, you know,
and a lot of this is has been said in numerous podcast, is that students were basically receiving very little exposure to tactile graphics.

And so when those tactile
graphics are prepared, when they're, created by a tactile graphics artist
or by teacher, it takes time and it takes preparation with a teacher
and sometimes, you know,
all of those things can be in place.

And then there's still a graphic.

And I know as a teacher,
I'm, I'm to blame it.

This is that sometimes
you're teaching a subject and you could be- and I used a cell
wall as an example or a model of a cell.

And sometimes you could, you could have this great model
of a cell, but then as a teacher, you go and let me tell you about this
cool word called the Golgi apparatus.

And then you might not have this graphic that really goes into that detail
or exactly what you're talking about.

The cell wall
is just one example of many.

And so Wing-IT has done is it's an iOS application
that pairs with the Monarch, and it's free to anybody,
no Monarch required.

So you can search, Monarch Wing-it
because if you just search Wing-it,

I've got to say
you got to give a disclaimer here.

It comes up with so many chicken
wing applications, it's pretty great.

So if you order wings,
don't send me the bill.

But, if you're looking for the tactile,
graphic, drawing application, it's Monarch Wing-It on the App Store and what that does is it allows you to draw tactile graphics instantly
and send them to the Monarch.

And even if you don't have a Monarch
there, you can still draft tactile graphics.

And when you do have one nearby,
you can display those tactile graphics, with the monarch Wing-It
application on the Monarch as well.

It is so neat.

I know some examples of people
just fiddling with Wing-It.

Figuring out how it works is
a lot of people have said, I want to see what my signature looks like,
so they've drawn their signature.

Or hey,
you want to look at a sun with some rays?

You know,
they're there's drawings of those.

What's been your favorite interaction
with Wing-It or maybe what
if somebody asked you to draw that has just kind of changed
their perspective on what they thought it looked like.

Okay.

So you touched on a couple of things, and I'm going to get to my favorite
because it is my all time favorite.

But we launched
Wing-IT at NFB this year in New Orleans.

And it was it was really incredible.

I love showing off Wing-It at a conference
because I get use cases that I never thought of, and, and I just
or I might have thought of, but I didn't think, oh,
this is going to be insane or this is, this is going to be definitely
what people want.

But at NFB, what was what was wild
and you and you mentioned it, folks were coming up to the booth
and they were like, hey, I heard,

I can draw my signature and touch it.

And it's like, yeah,
but there's so many other things.

No, no, no, I just want to see that.

And I was like,
oh, this is this is a really cool use case that people are like, oh,
so that's what my signature looks like.

Or like I drew the McDonald's arches.

It was like, oh, that's awesome.

That's what McDonald's looks like.

Yeah. Okay.

But my,
my favorite experience was my first actually with my first with a student,
and this was NFB two years ago, and it was very much
in an early prototype stage.

I was just showing the student,
what Wing-IT can do, and I like to draw a circle
and just move it on the screen.

Just something basic to to to have
some tactile discrimination to, to see.

Can a student track,
can they follow this on the screen.

Yeah.

And then I like to always
ask this question as well.

Let's play Pictionary.

What do you want me to draw
and this girl, instantly I thought, you know,
we were in Orlando at this point.

I was like, okay, it's going to be something mouse related
or something, you know, really cool.

And instantly
she was like draw grandma and,

I got to
tell you, the thing I love about Wing-it, and I hate about wing it the most
is that I'm a terrible, terrible artist.

Jason personally.

And so grandma was terrible.

Grandma had massive feet in my drawing,
but she loved it.

And I made her so happy.
And what's really cool.

And as I say that about my bad
drawing skills, but what I've seen is that in the
in the two years of development where I have been the bad drawer
showing off wing, it what's been incredible is then when the application,
now that it's out in the wild and it's got in the hands of people
who actually can draw- not me.

The, the like the sports courts I've seen,
like the basketball courts or football courts or, football fields,
if you will, like.

Those are really cool.

Just like they're, they're designs
that you're coming up with campus designs, in particular are, are very neat
when I've seen them.

We get or just,
I- a teacher emailed me the other day, it was an engineering, student,
a young student who was going into STEM, and he was interested in engineering,
and they broke out Wing-It to show him more of the assignment.

And, you know, it's the small cases
that are great.

This concludes part one of our interview
with Jason Martin from APH.

Please join us for episode 12,
where we will bring you part two.

Welcome, everybody, to Tips and Tricks.

This month, Roger
Steinberg has joined us again and he is our low vision product manager.

He's going to demonstrate the new
AI assistant found in Prodigi for Windows.

There's a lot of neat functionality
in this one, so enjoy.

So what I'd like to do is give an overview
of our new Prodigi AI assistant, which is currently integrated
into our Prodigi for Windows software and within the Magnifier application.

So I have on my computer right now
logged in to Prodigi for windows.

I've opened my magnifier application
and I've placed underneath of my document camera, in this case a HoverCam Solo 8
plus you can actually use pretty much any off the shelf
document camera, but I've placed under there a simple article
with a couple of topics about health.

And the global ecology and so forth.

And, the camera is looking at it, at the bottom of the screen,
I see a toolbar, and on the lower right corner
there is a bubble with three stars in it.

And this is the Prodigi AI assistant,
which I'm going to click on to now to open it up.

And this this opens a dialog box
over the image that I'm seeing.

It says what can I do for you.

And we've included
a number of popular searches.

I can click underneath of that box
on those popular searches, and I can see a list
of about nine different items that I can choose from to enter into the field above, I'm going to choose
provide a quick summary of this document.

And then to the right of that text
entry box, there's a submit button.

I'm going to go ahead and send that
question off to our services right now.

And we're going to use ChatGPT
4 which we will work to update.

Of course.

As things progress with ChatGPT document,
this course is two main topics global ecology and the benefits of a healthy diet
one global ecology.

It highlights
the impacts of climate change, emphasizing rising temperatures
and their effects on ecosystems.

Polar bears are particularly threatened due to shrieking ice caps,
which affects their ability to hunt.

The document calls
for action to address global warming, and mentions the repercussions
for quiet life as temperatures rise.

I'll pause right there.

So there you hear the response
that came back from the AI assistant.

In this case, it's
telling me that it's a global ecology.

One of the articles,
I could continue on.

There is a section about healthy diet on there, and this image
also contains multiple images.

The document does, as well.

And, if I want to refresh myself
as to what was in the document that I was captured in the lower
left of my assistant, right now, there is, two arrows pointing left and right
that I can tap on, and I can toggle over to the captured image
that we sent to the AI assistant there.

I can zoom in
and zoom out on, this image, to look at it more closely.

And in the lower left,
that toggle button remain so I can toggle back to my chat,
with the AI assistant about this document.

So I'm looking at it, have still having trouble telling what
the image is in the upper right corner.

So I'm going to toggle back
and type into the chat.

That is now at the bottom of the screen because we've asked a question
and ask what that image is.

So what is the image in the upper right corner.

And I'll send that off
and see what it comes back with.

The image in the upper right
corner features a vibrant underwater scene with colorful colored fish, specifically a clownfish,
which is often found in marine ecosystems.

The focus is on the rich biodiversity
and beauty of ocean habitats.

Now I have, Darius reading there.

You can hear it
now, I know it's a clownfish.

I wasn't sure exactly what kind of fish
that was, and now I know.

But, it tells me a little bit about that
image, and I could continue to ask questions about this article
and what is being returned about it.

In the, in the, text
field for entry at the bottom.

There is also to the far right,
a counter, that keeps track.

We, our customers get 25 questions
a day with the Prodigi assistant.

And in the upper right corner are settings
that can be adjusted so I can have, Prodigi read everything that I'm seeing on the screen
or just the answers that are returned.

And,
you've been hearing Darius reading.

I can also change,
the voice that I have reading to me there.

I have set
Darius to read quite fast there.

We will look to implement,
a speed setting into, these settings as well in the future.

But that is a system wide
setting that I have set.

So that's why
Darius reads at the speed that he does.

So, that's quite simply,
an example of what you can do with this.

What I'll do is flip this document over
and in the upper left of my AI.

So I'm going to come back out of it now
and, and return to a live view of the document
where I can zoom in and out and capture and OCR it and all those other things
that the Prodigi magnifier does.

But the document now is in French.

Now our system is set to read in English
and all of my interfaces in English language.

But this document's in French.

Maybe I want to know
that I've received a French document, and I want to know a little bit
about what this French document is.

So let's click on our AI assistant now.

And that will reopen the assistant.

I'll click on the box
and just say, what is this

French document about?

I'll type that in
and send that in to the AI assistant.

It will return a response here
in just a moment.

Takes about 3 to 5 seconds
to get a response back.

This rich document appears that covered
topics related to health and ecology.

One title and sections.

The top section mentioned smoothies
and for most fresh and organic fruits, suggesting a focus on healthy
eating. Two.

Featured on alimentation saying.

This section
discusses the benefits of a healthy diet, emphasizing its effectiveness,
and for taking a quick pause. There.

So here you can see that even though
the document was in French, the response because my system is set to English,
is returned in an English response.

So it can be very helpful,
when I want to, engage with things that are of a second language
or a language that I don't know.

Here again, I can toggle back and forth
between the captured image that we sent to our cloud services.

So it's using an image of this,
to provide answers about this specific document that I'm looking at,
but some other unique things about this.

I'll back out of that
to my live view again.

That's the button in the upper left
corner of my assistant.

I'm going to throw,
an energy bill under here now that I've received in the mail.

And, so basically what I've done is reset
it so that I can get a different image.

Now, I'll open my assistant again
now and say, how much do I owe and when?

And I'll send that off.

You owe a total of $308.96.

The due date for
this amount is June 22nd, 2021.

I'm going to take a look at the document
right now.

And, it says that I owe $308.96.

And June 22nd, 2021, both of those seemed to be accurate
from what I'm seeing here.

So it has done a nice job of,
looking at this document and returning a response for,
what I need to do with that.

And then lastly, let's exit out
of, asking questions about that document and let's place a handwritten note underneath of there,
a card that I've received in the mail.

And let's, go ahead and have the

AI assistant, answer.

What does this card say?

And we'll send that to the AI assistant.

And here it's
the card reads dash, dash, dash.

Dear Roger, thank you
for the super terrific, phone apartment.

You may not have seen my eyesight,
but it saved my sanity.

It has made my playing life
so much bigger and brighter.

So there you go.

You see that
it's able to recognize you back.

Now, if you're listening closely,
you might have said, thank you for the super terrific phone apartment
I'm going to toggle to to what I'm looking at here in zoom
in on this handwriting and, you, again, you can't see this because, I'm
just providing an MP3 of this recording.

But when I zoom in, to like,
30 x on this,

I can see that, this is jet ski.

She sent me the card.

It actually does
look like a p t on this document.

So, that the, the AI assistant saw that is, is an abbreviation for apartment,
and translated it as such.

However, it was, correct on that.

And you can say that it went on and gave me back a good summary of what
she said in her card that she sent to me.

So, this
AI assistant can be super powerful.

When used in conjunction
with our magnifier application, it allows the user to interact
with all the things that they might need to do on a day to day basis, from bills to cards to magazines
to books to different things like that.

As I wrap up, sharing about the app here, application,
one thing that I would say is always take a look,
at the responses that come back and be critical of them, because, again,
AI is not 100% accurate.

It does make mistakes.

So it's always good to double check
anything that's super important.

So obviously bills, things like that,
things of a legal or medical nature.

Absolutely.

Double check on those things because we
are using artificial intelligence to do this.

But you can see how it could
greatly benefit you on a day to day basis, keeping engaged with those things
that you want to keep up with.

Thank you.

Hey everybody.

It's time for the upcoming
shows segment on November 20th and 21st.

Join us at the Tennessee School
for the blind for the Unity Conference.

That's free of charge, and we'd love for you to stop by
and see us. Also on November 20th.

Join us in Warwick,

Rhode Island, at the Assistive Technology
Conference of New England.

On December 6th.

Join us at The Villages, Florida
for the Village Entertainment and Tree Lighting Festival.

Those are all the upcoming shows
we have for November and December.

We will see things start to slow down
a little bit over the holiday season, but don't worry,
we will definitely be back in action sooner rather than later
and we hope to see you around.

If you have comments or suggestions,
we'd love to hear from you.

Please send them to
[email protected]

That's [email protected].

Thanks so much for listening to See Things
Differently.

We'll see you next month.